Jane: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the LSEG Sustainable Growth Podcast, where we talk to leading experts about sustainability and finance and pretty much everything in between. I'm Jane Goodland, and this week I spoke with Salar Shemirani, who's the CEO of Regenified, a company that's pioneering a new way to get food on our plate, which could transform agriculture as we know it. Salar talked about the food brands that are leading the way and reveals how regenerative agriculture can be more profitable and sensible from an environmental perspective. But before we hear from Salar, a quick reminder to follow us and rate us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or any other platform you use. Enjoy the show.
Hi Salar. Good to see you. It's been a little while actually since we saw each other in London. And today you're back in your home of Texas, I understand. So, thank you very much for coming on the show.
Salar: [00:00:57] Thanks, Jane. Yeah, we've got a couple of Brits in Texas, and I'm one of those.
Jane: [00:01:02] And I think it's quite early in the morning. And you, you were telling me that you've got your you've got your special coffee on the go.
Salar: [00:01:10] I do, I have my Buena Vida certified Regenified coffee from Costa Rica, which is rather divine.
Jane: [00:01:17] Excellent. Well, I'm going to tap you up for one of those very soon. So, we're going to talk about agriculture today. Now, I think it's probably sensible if we start from the very beginning about from your perspective, what's the problem with agriculture in a traditional sense of what are we doing that's not so great now?
Salar: [00:01:36] And I promise I will not sugarcoat it if that's okay.
Jane: [00:01:39] Go straight ahead.
Salar: [00:01:40] Well, where do I start? I mean, we've been farming, like we've got a spare planet in the glove box. Modern agriculture, as in the industrial kind, was designed to feed a hungry post-war world. And credit where it's due, it did that, but today it's running on borrowed time. We've pushed the land hard for decades and maximised the yields, put copious amount of inputs into the land. Monoculture more and more and more. And now the cracks are showing quite literally. In the UK alone. I was looking at the statistics the other day, over 40% of the species have vanished or declined since the 1970s. Our soil is degrading faster than it's regenerating. Rivers are polluted; pollinators are disappearing. And meanwhile farmers, the very the very people that actually holding this whole food systems together are working harder, earning less and getting blamed for the mess. And here is a brutal irony that they didn't design the system, the farmers, they've just been trying to survive it. So, this isn't a farmer problem. It's a system design failure, and we've engineered it for short term outputs and gains, not long term resilience. We've prioritised calories over nutrients, scale over stewardship. And now that we are waking up to the bill in the form of eroded soils and broken supply chains and climate shocks and hollowed out rural communities and countryside, we are wondering what's wrong with the system. Well, in a word, it forgot the future.
Jane: [00:03:18] Well, you did promise not to sugarcoat it, so it's a very sobering look at what the problem is. But today we're going to focus on the solution, or at least from your perspective, what you believe the solution is. And that's regenerative agriculture. So, tell me more about that. What is it and how might it solve some of the problems that you set out before?
Salar: [00:03:39] Yeah. Happy to share my perspective on that. Regenerative agriculture isn't some new buzzword. It's not about fancy tech, different way of doing things as in novel ways. It's about getting back to how nature was designed to work, and stopping the fight against it. Most of the problems we see in farming today, the erosion, the low fertility, the weed pressure, the input costs going over the roof, by the way, they come from systems that treat land like a factory and not like a living ecosystem. And regenerative agriculture flips that. It says let's work with nature instead of trying to outsmart it. That means keeping living roots in the ground year round. You know, cutting back on disturbance. No more extensive tearing up the soil just because we always have, bringing diverse plants and animals back into the land, covering the soil like nature intended. Letting the water cycle do its job and building real soil health where fertility resilience and profit actually come from. So, this isn't about doing less harm. It's about doing real good, improving the land every year and not depleting it. And here is the part that most people miss. It's not just better for the environment; it's better for the farmer. We've seen many people like Gabe Brown, actually, His Majesty mentioned in his book the Harmony, they've lived it. Lower inputs, more resilience, healthy crops and livestock and a heck of a lot less stress when the rains don't come or, prices tank. So yeah, regenerative agriculture works. And it's not the theory. It's practical, it's profitable and it's proven right there in the soil.
Jane: [00:05:21] Okay. So, you're with Regenified. I want to know more about the organisation and how your organisation fits into this notion of regenerative agricultural systems.
Salar: [00:05:34] Regenified was created three years ago on a notion that as more and more companies are making commitment to regenerative agriculture, we all believe that the intentions are noble, and the commitments are genuine and literal. However, we felt that there might be some risk and danger of unintended greenwashing or misplacement of claims. And that's why Regenified was created to protect the narrative around regenerative agriculture. So, Gabe Brown, Doctor Allen Williams, Doug Peterson and myself got together. Them being really the farmers, the ranchers and the soil health advocates for the past few decades. And me coming from the city in London, tried to put together a business that verifies and certifies land and farms that practice regeneratively and are regenerative path and certified products that come out of those farms. So, we created a framework that is outcome based, not checkbox based. It's called the 634 protocols. It is around the six principles of Soil health and the four ecosystem processes. And the whole intention is that farmers can improve their practices and buyers can trust what they are sourcing. But we don't stop just at the certification because we believe in order for us to really scale regenerative supply chain across the board, we need to build bridges. And that's where we work directly with brands, retailers, manufacturers to help them source regenerative ingredients from regenerative farms and put that dollars into transition and reward farmers for practising regeneratively. In a sense, we translate outcomes into economic opportunities for both end of the chain. So, it's not about greenwashing. It's about proof and partnership.
Jane: [00:07:18] So let's talk money because you've mentioned a couple of times profitability. Help me understand why regenerative agriculture doesn't necessarily mean higher food prices. And is this really a solution that could be accessible to all, or is this something which is a nice to have if you're going to pay for it? Am I totally off the mark? Salar.
Salar: [00:07:43] No, you're asking a great question actually, because a lot of people when you speak or talk about regenerative agriculture or any new ideas around food and different ways of doing things, folks may realise that it's a different product. It has a higher price. So, you're asking an excellent question and oftentimes very common. But here's the uncomfortable truth. Cheap food is a myth. We've just shifted the cost to ecosystems, health systems and farmers bank account quite literally. Regenerative doesn't have to mean higher prices, but it does mean more honest prices. Over time, regenerative farmers reduce their input costs, reduce their labour intensity and other cost that goes into production. They improve their resilience; they stabilise their margins and that keeps farms alive, the food secure. Now, Jane, the other side of the equation is accessibility. Because like any other idea, thought or product for something to be priced normal, it needs to be scaled to achieve a balance. So, accessibility is critical. And that's where brands, investors capital markets, policy makers need to step in. We can't just say farm regeneratively and walk away. We need we need we need capital markets, supportive policies a reward system that is based on incentivising outcomes, education and awareness. We need farmers, right. So regenerative agriculture isn't about elitism. It's about building a food system that doesn't destroy the future, to feed the present. And that doesn't mean that it has to cost us a fortune to purchase those products. They absolutely must be accessible in every single grocery store in the country. And it doesn't have to be more expensive.
Jane: [00:09:35] Okay, I'm trying to understand a little bit more about how we would make this shift. And I say we I mean, collectively, a whole system. How would you make that whole system shift? So, let's dig into some of the motivators for the adoption of regenerative agricultural practices. I suppose specifically why are particular stakeholder groups getting involved? Why is the farmer interested in doing this?
Salar: [00:10:01] I mean, let me put this this way. Farmers, they are on the edge. Inputs are up, margins are down, pressure is everywhere. And they're not just burning out. They are walking away. Jane, I was looking at this a statistic the other day. In the UK, over 6,000 farms have disappeared in the past five years. That's over 1,200 farms per year lost. And what's the sad part is that the younger generations often don't bother to step in anymore. So regenerative agriculture offers something rare in the system. In my opinion, it offers dignity and durability. When farmers reduce inputs, improve their soil and work with natural ecosystem, they regain control. They start producing more with less, building profits from the ground up, quite literally. You know, what's most important is that you as a farmer, to have a successful business, because ultimately a farm is a business. But what's most incredible? If you and I need to think about it a bit differently, just imagine the place that we work is also our home. It's where our family lives in. So, for them, it's not only about business, it's their home. It's their legacy. It's about their children. And if you're not building a sustainable business and a thriving home, you cannot expect your children to take over. And that's the sad part of it, is that we are running out of options. And regenerative agriculture offers that solution for us to put life back into countryside, back into British farming and agriculture. And it's as compelling as it gets in regenerative agriculture. So that's where I would say farmers would be interested in regenerative agriculture. And that's why they are interested in taking it up.
Jane: [00:11:45] And I guess that in order for that to happen, you need a bunch of different components to be in place, not least like the policy environment, the regulatory environment. So, so important. Right?
Salar: [00:11:55] So. Right. Jane, I mean, this isn't just about a food issue. It's everyone with a stake in land supply chains or capital market is waking up.
Jane: [00:12:02] Yeah. And I think that's the thing, isn't it, is that to really think about this in a systemic way, you simply can't just think about this as being actually even just an agricultural issue or a farming issue. This is about our entire food security, food chains, health. There's so many facets of a society that this connects in with, which is why it's such a fascinating topic in terms of, I guess, some other interested stakeholders. And we are going to come into this in a bit more. But you mentioned the brands and I think food retail food producers obviously incredibly powerful in all of this. Right. So, tell me a bit more about their motivation for getting involved.
Salar: [00:12:47] Having lived in a few countries and supporting a number of businesses in different jurisdictions, I'm very proud of our British supermarkets and retailers because we do have, in the UK, very strong relationship as brands and as retailers and grocers with farmers. So, I just want to put that in first. That's incredibly fortunate position that we are in given the legacy build ups of the supply chains that we've had. But if you look at it from a perspective of brands, Jane, they had a supply chain awakening or wakeup call recently. Covid, climate shocks, geopolitical risks have exposed just how fragile is the global food system. Regenerative sourcing isn't just a sustainability play. It's a resilience strategy, in my opinion, and the market is shifting fast. Consumers are demanding proof regulators are tightening up the screws. Competitors are racing to make their supply chain traceable. Local. You hear about net zero or low carbon. We hear about rewarding farmers more. We're hearing about nutritional density. We are hearing about the protein trend and all that. I mean, in part all of that, regenerative supply chain can serve, especially when it's verified. So now a strategic differentiator is that the truth? So, it's a way now to win shelf space investor trust and consumer loyalty in my opinion as you become more aware and more connected with your supply chain.
Jane: [00:14:19] So your organisation’s active in supply chain placement, sitting right between brands and farmers. Can you give us some real life examples of how that's working in practice?
Salar: [00:14:31] Yes, I'm very happy to. And the reason we decided to invest in that area was because if you remember earlier, I mentioned about large corporations making commitments that they want to source regeneratively and transition to supply chain to regenerative agriculture. Now, not everybody has or know their own supply chain in the world. So, some of these commitments, although very noble, folks cannot wait to make it happen fast enough. And we saw a real opportunity through the work that we were doing. We have access to an incredible market that demands these products. And we decided to play a more active role in connecting brands with farmers and different supply chain players in the middle. So, I'll give you an example across the pond. We have Diestel Family Ranch, which is an incredible family operations in California producing turkey. And they are a family. The family is incredible in their forward thinking vision for better food system, and they've been implementing regenerative practices on their pasture to raise turkey, regeneratively. What is fascinating is that, you know, with a six kilo turkey, you go through, you know, 30 kilos of corn and some soybean and other things to feed the turkey. So, it is as much as about that couple of acres that you're raising the pasture for turkeys to have a great time out. It is at the multiply acres that the corn is grown to be able to feed the turkeys. So, what we've done with them is they wanted to source they were sourcing conventionally from as in from conventional system. So, we supported them to source their corn for their regenerative flock from an incredible farmer in Illinois in the name of Greg Thorin, who is one of our top tier farms, tier five certified regenerative farm. And they fed their turkey certified regenerated land with regeneratively grown and certified corn. And what's most remarkable, Jane, is that we did testing on nutrient density, testing on the products, and it is more nutrient dense. So, for us to be able to connect farmers and Greg Thorin, an amazing farmer. He would naturally sell to the local elevator or local grain merchant at a certain price, getting a price premium for recognition and he knows that his corn that he's grown is feeding turkeys in California. It's been an incredible it's been an incredible experience for us. So that really propelled us to do more of this. So now we are working with a few brands here in the United States trying to connect farmers to their supply chain. And we are not talking smaller scale. We're now in conversations and in planning stages to help a large brand to source about 65,000 acres, almost 25,000 hectares of wheat for their bakery product lines. So, this is really scaling up fast, and we actually are very honoured to be able to play that part. And also, across the pond here in the UK as well. We are seeing the momentum is building and we see many farmers who want to access downstream market with restaurants and retailers. So, we are working with a few of the beef producers here in England to help them place their products into a couple of restaurants in London. So that is forming up. We are starting with pasture protein in the UK, but it's going to it's going to take us a bit longer here in the UK to be able to form this supply chain. Credit to the British agriculture and again supply chain, because we have closer relationship between brands and retailers and farmers.
Jane: [00:18:21] Yeah. And so, I mean Regentrified started in the US right. And that's where some of the other founders are from and they're farmers there. Right. So, but and then it's more recently that you've come to the UK, but you believe that there's a really great opportunity here to be able to have an impact and to really drive a, I guess, momentum and a movement towards regenerative agriculture. So, what's your ambitions for the UK?
Salar: [00:18:48] I mean, and not many people know that actually we created the UK company and the company house first before we did the US company and not because I was from the UK. I had nothing to do with it. But listen, for us, the UK is a natural fit. 70% of land is farmed, and we are at a pivotal moment in UK agriculture and British farming. Post-Brexit agricultural policy is shifting. There is an appetite for new models and frankly, UK consumers and brands are ahead of the curve in sustainability and ethical sourcing. And what's been missing is, I believe, regenerative agriculture at a scale, and we intend to bring a credible verification system and supply chain scaffolding to support the scale up of regenerative agriculture in the UK and bring more folks back to farms and make sure the farming in the UK is sustainable and profitable and viable. So, we are working with farms across the UK, arable, grass fed, grassland mix, and British farmers are incredible in adopting some of these practices and we are verifying more and more of them every day. You're in active discussions with UK retailers and food brands that want their supply chain to be verified, and our US base gives us the global credibility, but our UK mission is local regeneration. It's all about the UK, we have a dedicated UK team whom we are incredibly proud of and they're amazing folks. We are simply rooted in British soil, backed by British data and British team, and very much the Regenified UK business is a very, very British company.
Jane: [00:20:24] Excellent. Sounds fabulous. So, let's finish up you mentioned scaffolding there. That made me think about how you can shore up this whole initiative. So, what would you say the perfect enabling environment is for regenerative agriculture? I mean, what do you need from a policy perspective, for example.
Salar: [00:20:47] You know, Jane, I've heard a few incredible influences in regenerative agriculture movement, say, and I'm going to plagiarise for a moment that regenerative agriculture is as much about relationship as it's about agriculture. And that's very telling because to your point, regenerative agriculture cannot scale if we are not collaborating and creating a community of discussions and enablement for agriculture and farming to move down this path. I would say in order for regenerative agriculture to have a perfect enabling environment, farmers must be put first. It really is time to put farmers at the centre of the equation. And we have to all gather around farm and farmers to build, to your point, the right system of policy that incentivises adoption of regenerative agriculture, not just 1 or 2 practices. The entire principles and practices that supports farmers. We need capital markets that is willing to listen and consider a different way of farming practices that are different today to, to, to the to the basic yield and price of commodity in the market that our beloved lenders in the city use to make lending decisions. We need we need more retailers and brands to want to source more high quality products that come from regenerative farms, reward our beloved farmers for practising regeneratively and raise awareness amongst consumers about where their food comes from. And at the same time, we need consumers to also think about what they're purchasing, the price they are paying not only for that product, but in other indirect costs that they are facing, about their health, about everything else that they are facing in this tough environment. So, I'm not sure if I answered your question, but it's as much as about policy and capital markets as much as about putting farmers first and really building an ecosystem of support around it. I just want to be very, very clear that this isn't about handouts. It's about national interest, because a resilient food system is a national infrastructure and its national security. I would say let's stop subsidising extraction and let's fund regeneration. Funding doesn't usually come from a from a format of pound and sterling. It comes from support systems and recognition.
Jane: [00:23:14] Amazing. Salar, I think you've summed it up beautifully there. And you did indeed answer my question. Thank you so much indeed for coming on the show. It's been enlightening, thought provoking, and I'm sure our listeners will be thinking a little bit more about what's on their plate after listening to this. Thank you again, Salar.
Salar: [00:23:33] Thanks, Jane. My absolute pleasure.
Jane: [00:23:36] Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode with Salar from Regenified. If you've got questions, comments or someone you want us to talk to, then do get in touch by email at fmt@lseg.com. That's all from me, but watch for the next episode very soon.
